Cause & Effect

[SHATOUSHKA]

i am just about willing to submit to the idea of C&E...but one thing always gets in the way:

C&E is not infinite. should it be?

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General Philosophy

[Hannibal]

How is C&E not infinite? Explain behind that a tad would you please Shat? I think I understand the basic concept of C&E *as who can not, something happens, then an effect, etc..*
but that in itself is infinite, as the question "which came first, chicken or the egg?"
one of which is cause, one of which is effect, either side you could argue to infinity correct? Thus implying the infiniteness of C&E,
Or perhaps I've missed the entire point
in which case "TO THE GALLOWS!!!!!"


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As miserable as life may be I hold it pretty precious...

If I lose the light of the sun, I will write by candlelight, moonlight, no light. If I lose paper and ink, I wil write in blood on forgotten walls. I will write always, I will capture nights all over the world and bring them to you.

[TastinGood]

Cause and Effect. Chain of events. All of the chaos makes perfect sense. When youre spinning round things come undone. Welcome to earth, third rock from the sun.

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"If Lincoln had thought being the President was such a longshot, we'd have nobody's picture on the one dollar bill" -Arthur Fonzerelli (The Fonz)

[SHATOUSHKA]

hannibal--
i'll let you ponder it more.

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General Philosophy

[zelazny]

couldn't withold my funny ideas about cause and effect
what shat probably means is that for C&E you need an infinite chain of C&E just because there has to be something that starts the next chain.
Otherwise you'd have to invent some moveless mover, something which has no cause that starts the chain of cause and effect.

That's where i had the funny idea that if you take the big bang theory is that you start with a finite universe, there has to be a time before it, and since a universe encompasses all there is, that means that there was nothing before that universe.
no nothing, no rules, no time AND no cause and effect
just my 2 Eurocents.

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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

[SHATOUSHKA]

congratulations! it was on sale this week!
here's your change. thanks for shopping!

*ding*

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General Philosophy

[state_vector]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Otherwise you'd have to invent some moveless mover, something which has no cause that starts the chain of cause and effect.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This "moveless mover" is what I call "stillmover" (like the aristotelian "kinoun akineton"). Damn you, Zelazny, I feel we're too close in some fields (betta watch out your postings, cuz the ones I love I keep em only for myself - in my hard drive).

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[state_vector]

Cause and effect? Well, alright! The child is a mother's cause, and the mother is a child's effect. Or: What I make makes me. No dualism involved.

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[empiricyst]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SHATOUSHKA:
i am just about willing to submit to the idea of C&E...but one thing always gets in the way:

C&E is not infinite. should it be?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello. What kind of sense of "cause and effect" are we talking about here? Empirical or logical? The kind that says my ass just produced something noxious or the kind that says "left" and "right" arise together in causal relation?

The Cyst

[Sapius]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Shatoush: C&E is not infinite. should it be?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have already concluded in the first have of your sentence that C&E is NOT infinite, without giving any explanation. Please justify your conclusion.

Answer to your question: Yes, C&E is Infinite, which means no beginning, no end. Which is a difficult concept to comprehend, because we are used to the understanding that Everything we perceive has a beginning and an end.

You will realize that I will say nothing new as far as our collective knowledge has reached up until now. It is very simple if you can see it.

Cause and Effect is nothing more than Energy changing its form from one thing to another. Every Cause is an Effect of a previous Cause, and every Effect acts as the Cause of a future Effect. This chain is Infinite with no beginning or end, and has not been started by any external or supernatural force.

Reason, simple, some crazy scientist said that Energy never dies, but simply changes form, so where does the question arise of it coming into being at any point? Or someone creating it and putting it into motion. The motion never "started" at any point, and will never end. Infinitude?

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....just IMHO though.